Birga Meyer knows the Schwules Museum like no other: in this interview, she talks about her various roles at the SMU, from volunteering to managing the museum (together with Luan Pertl). Then things get very personal when Meyer talks about her passion for museum and community work, participation, and queer activism, and donates an object from this period to the Schwules Museum’s archive. Of course, we didn’t miss the opportunity to ask Birga about the history and present of the SMU, as well as resilience in increasingly difficult political times—the SMU management is ready to answer your questions!
Yasmin: Fifty percent of the executive management is sitting across from me; hello, Birga! After we set up this appointment, I naturally had to Google you first. Online, it says you are a historian and cultural scientist. Do you want to tell us about your career path?
Birga: Yes! Looking back, it seems completely linear, but in the middle of it, it didn’t feel that way at all. After school, I knew for sure I wanted to do something involving culture and history. That led to my studies in Bremen. The choice of city was somewhat random; I was deciding between Berlin, Bremen, and Leipzig. I found Bremen to be “super sweet.” I started working on and helping design exhibitions relatively early on, focusing primarily on the themes of antisemitism and German perpetration. For my PhD, I went to Canada, where I researched the representation of history in museums in Austria, Hungary, and Italy. So, my later professional career in museums was already taking shape early on. Museums fascinated me! As I said, in hindsight, it all makes sense and fits together well, but I find it interesting how resumes work—you can write them one way or another.
Y: That’s true! The narrative usually only emerges after the fact…
B: Exactly! In Vancouver, I worked at the Holocaust Education Centre and quickly realized how much more beautiful, exciting, and creative I found museum work compared to university work—but it could have turned out quite differently. After six years, I came back to Germany and landed in Berlin. One week after defending my dissertation, I received a job offer for the Museum Friedland. Without that, I might have stayed in research, but luckily, this position led me fully into the museum world.
Y: I’ve seen you in a few roles here at the museum; I remember you in curation and on the board. Have I forgotten anything?
B: I did project management once, too (laughs).
Y: Good thing I asked! Either way, you started your position as managing director with a pretty good internal institutional perspective. To what extent do your previous roles inform your current work?
B: Great question! It helps me to have a diverse and long-standing connection to the house that isn’t just defined by my three short years as managing director. my view of the institution is broader. For example, I know what it means to contribute here as a volunteer or to work here as a freelancer. Among other things, that shapes how I show appreciation and how I interact with people. My time as a board member influenced my goals right at the start of my leadership period—basically everything I wanted to do and change at the house. It was also special that I knew exactly “how the shop runs” (laughs). That insider knowledge of what was coming my way was a valuable bonus!
Y: And the full-time team wasn’t a stranger to you either!
B: That’s true, though I’m not entirely sure if that’s an advantage or a disadvantage. I’ve made an effort to get to know the people here again with a fresh and open mind. What work is being done, who has what strengths, how can the museum support whom? But you’d have to ask other people on the team if I’ve succeeded at that (both laugh).
Y: Can you remember how you first came into contact with the Schwules Museum?
B: Yes! That was two years before the Year of the Woman_en was held at the SMU. When the project started, Panda Ortmann told me about the SMU. Panda and I know each other from the student union (AStA) at the University of Bremen, and Panda was already connected to the museum back then. The word was that there was going to be something about BDSM and FLINTA*, and asked if I wanted to apply for an exhibition—at least, that’s what I understood! In reality, it was just a single event about the FLINTA* BDSM scene that Birgit Bosold wanted to do. But I rocked up there with a finished pitch for an exhibition in my pocket (laughs). I presented it because I thought that’s what it was about! Apparently, the pitch worked so well that Birgit really wanted to implement the show, even though no exhibition had been planned.
Y: Oh my god, and that turned into Proudly Perverted!
B: Exactly. I worked on that as a volunteer because there simply wasn’t any funding for it. But I was so enthusiastic about the idea and absolutely wanted to do it. At the time, I had a part-time position at the House of the Wannsee Conference, and I put all my free time into Proudly Perverted.
Y: And just like that, you’re in the SMU network!
B: I then joined the association relatively quickly, co-curated Rosarotin Ost-Berlin, and advised the board on a voluntary basis—out of pure enthusiasm for the house. And that’s how I got pulled in!
Y: And we never let go (both laugh).
B: Advising the board was in 2021, very shortly after I had a child. Apparently, during my pregnancy, I thought it would be totally great to load myself up with a ton of volunteer work with a newborn, and then in 2022, I even ran for election to the board (laughs).
Y: Okay, wow, so it started in 2017. That means next year is your ten-year anniversary!
B: Oh, that sounds a bit serious now, but alright (both laugh).
Y: You recently spoke at the ICOM annual conference, where you gave a presentation titled “What is the community doing in the museum—what is the museum doing in the community? Participation and Engagement at the Schwules Museum.” What does participation look like at the Schwules Museum?
B: I think participation works differently at the Schwules Museum than at other places. Generally speaking, many institutions are part of the majority society without naming that politically or critically examining that position and the privileges associated with it. That’s why a clear stance on dominant discourses in society rarely takes place. We do it differently! Of course, on the one hand, we speak up for our rights and fight the battles we are a part of—that already changes things. But generally, we have a sincere interest in the people and communities represented through our programming: what is the lived reality of these people, what does their history look like? What do they need beyond the project with us? Through the exhibitions on sex work, for example, we are closely connected with sex workers and are a clear ally. Today, for us, that means if sex workers are attacked in Berlin, or when it comes to the fight for the rights of sex workers, the Schwules Museum is there! In a way, we become part of these communities, and their struggles are relevant to us too. My wish is to use our position as best as possible to help shape and change social discourses through cultural means—via the collection, the exhibitions, or educational outreach—through cultural-historical formats.
Y: And are we succeeding?
B: That depends, of course, on who or what you compare yourself to! And museums, of course, aren’t as world-shaking as other institutions. But among museums, we are quite special—and I do experience the positive effect that self-efficacy, visibility, being seen, and being remembered has. The house changes things in debates and, at the same time, experiences change itself. There is always room for improvement, though; those two things exist simultaneously.
Y: Now the Schwules Museum is celebrating its 40th anniversary and a history closely linked to self-empowerment, visibility, and activism. Which of these founding values are still relevant, and which might have been added?
B: All three are current, though I think the form of activism has changed due to the professionalization of the house. Nevertheless, it remains very activist through the individual positions people take within the museum! We have gone through, led, and shaped many of the internal queer debates; we found and negotiated our position within them. In this position, we aren’t just self-affirming or self-reassuring, but we also ask: Who are we? Who do we want to be? How do we want to live? And the aspects of the archive and collection were and are central to that; we preserve and record, and we also secure history—for ourselves, for research, and thus for posterity.
Y: What does it mean to you personally not only to celebrate the SMU’s birthday but also to be able to accompany it critically and historically?
B: I really enjoyed getting the chance to look a bit deeper into the early days of the museum. It’s impressive to see what was built 40 years ago and to know that it all still exists. That’s powerful! The interviews we conducted with the founders and the people closely involved in the founding also felt a bit like a hand-over. Especially in the conversation with Wolfgang Theis, there were a few moments where he said: “Well, now you guys just have to keep going.” That established a connection and gave a feeling of: “Of course, many things are different today than 40 years ago, but at the same time, there is a lot in common.”
Y: The filmed interviews are important parts of the exhibition “…and that’s when the problems started—The Founding of the Schwules Museum 1985.” Why was speaking from their perspective so important to you and Luan Pertl in the curation?
B: At the beginning, I was simply shocked by how little our “founding mothers” are represented in our own archive. This led to the desire to interview them. The historical perspective is just as important as their own view of the museum. There was an honest, sincere interest on our part to find out how they feel about the institution today. In the end, it turned into what I think is a beautiful, small, and appreciative exhibition. I’m satisfied, especially considering the time constraints and the double burden that Luan and I faced as both management and curators.
Y: The title of the exhibition already hints at conflicts and difficulties…
B: The quote in the title is from Wolfgang Theis and can also be heard in the exhibition. When you hear him, you also understand how ironically he meant it. He’s actually saying: “Yeah, and with that, we took on a whole lot of work, trouble, and stress.” I thought that was great (laughs). It captures the spirit of the founding era, which is still present today. I mean this engagement with one’s own work. If you want to do something, move something, change something—whether internally or externally—it always involves effort at first.
Y: Did you learn about an aspect during these interviews that particularly surprised or moved you?
B: Yes, the collection of Andreas Sternweiler! I knew about it, but I didn’t really know it. Sternweiler’s collection on the subject of homoeroticism is incredibly extensive and diverse. Despite the thematic focus, it spans many object groups that fit together in a fascinating way, even though they are so different. I find it impressive how love, affection, and intimacy are shown in the collection. Being allowed to get to know Andreas’s collection like that was just wonderful.
Y: If I understood correctly, you are donating something from your private collection to the Schwules Museum archive and even brought something with you. Let’s see it!
B: Yes! Actually, I’m quite bad at collecting; I feel like I know how impossible completeness is. I have this perfectionism that frustrates me when I collect (laughs). But here I have a memento from my early queer years in activism. This is a screen print from the party crew “Team Orange” from Bremen, which I belonged to. So, I basically made it myself! It was originally a shirt, but I cut it up to turn it into a patchwork-style patch. Maybe a bit embarrassing today, but it says “reboot da system” and shows a skull with a hinted orange…
Y: What did Team Orange do in Bremen, and what time period are we talking about?
B: It started in the early 2000s, and I was involved until about 2006. We mainly organized underground parties—illegal raves, basically. Under bridges or in abandoned houses, but sometimes also in cultural centers or other places. For a while, we even had our own space in the “Alte Post” in Bremen, where we hosted parties for a few years. We celebrated roughly once a month; there were DJ and VJ sets, but also performances by bands, and the cohesion of the crew and what we did was very important to me. The crew and the audience were mixed, so not just queer, but queer aspects were a natural part of it, and we also organized many explicitly queer events. In addition to the party series, we were active in cultural politics and got a lot done. I find it exciting how such groups function when, despite differences, there is clear support for certain issues. In terms of content, we always carried each other!
Y: What was so formative about those years for you?
B: I had already done classic left-wing activism in the 1990s, but somehow the dogmatism of the German Left turned me off. Plus, my time in Team Orange falls into a kind of glorified student era… they were just a great personal experience (laughs). Today, I view these textiles as cultural testimony, even if the historical relevance only became clear to me a few decades later. We provided queer visibility and created a space for the local queer community, for queer celebration, and thus queer joy and cohesion. In addition to this piece here, I’m giving other shirts and patches to the archive, like this shirt from Queerruption Vancouver, which took place on Salt Spring Island in 2007 and which I helped co-organize, or this one from the FLINTA BDSM Easter Conference* from 2010—the first one I attended in Berlin. I think these pieces shouldn’t lie in my closet any longer; they should go into the archive of the Schwules Museum and tell queer history there.
Y: It’s often the case that you only see with some distance which everyday objects capture queer lives. How cool that you’re handing this over to us! But let’s turn our gaze from the past to the future: what awaits us in the new year at the SMU?
B: We have a great year ahead of us! In April, there will be an exhibition on queer life in the countryside. Berlin will finally stop just looking at itself and instead examine what queer realities look like outside of the “Out and Proud City.” I’m really looking forward to it, and the exhibition is also very humorous and wonderfully designed. After that, we’re taking over an exhibition on Susan Sontag from the Bundeskunsthalle Bonn, which we are expanding to include several queer aspects and Susan Sontag’s connection to Berlin. And in the fall, Dis/Kontinuitäten by Tarek Shukrallah is coming. This exhibition tells the story of queer BIPoC activism in Germany’s past and present and locates it within queer movements. This is an immensely important exhibition. And besides the exhibitions, a lot is happening in the education department, and in the archive, there are several research and cooperation projects that are absolutely fantastic.
Y: A full year! We’re actually sending a strong signal, given the austerity policies of recent years.
B: Sure, but the challenge remains. The question of how we deal with decreasing public funds still exists. From a management perspective, it has become an important concern of mine to think about strategies of resilience: how do we face these political changes as the Schwules Museum? They are happening in Germany, but also globally. The climate is becoming harsher and more hostile, which is why I want to push all the more for a humane, more empathetic collective politics. What that looks like in concrete terms is something we still have to figure out in detail, but maybe it simply means continuing to be visible and doing what we do anyway. But there are definitely struggles ahead of us. We don’t have a choice. But I believe we can position ourselves well within them.
Y: So that’s the motto for 2026: becoming resilient!
B: I can’t set that for the entire museum right now, but perhaps for myself personally and my work. Becoming resilient—or rather staying resilient—and having the strength for old and new battles. Ideally, doing it all with warmth toward and for ourselves.
Y: A good resolution! Thank you, Birga, for these insights into your activism, your work at the SMU, and your upcoming year!
Interview and Photography: Yasmin Künze