Berlin, you are so wonderful! Hardly anyone knows how to sing that like Jutta Grelle. As the unmistakable face of Berlin’s queer scene, in this interview she shares her moving journey from Nuremberg to Berlin and her deep connections to the city and queer communities. From her beginnings in the women’s movement to her formative time as a lighting technician at the legendary SO36 and her current role at the Schwules Museum – Jutta, as she says herself, links past, present and future in her narrative. What could be the connection between her passion for sex workers’ rights and her vision for a queer elderly care foundation? Find the answer here!
Good morning, Jutta! Again, I’ll start with the questions I ask our other darlings: Who are you, where are you from, what keeps you busy… Who is Jutta Grelle?
Jutta Grelle has been in Berlin for almost 35 years and is originally from Nuremberg.
Uuhh, Bavaria!
From Franconia! That has to be strictly separated, the Franconians are peculiar … (laughs) I’ve done all sorts of things, but I’ve been in the administration of the Gay Museum since June 2023. So it’s just been a year!
Why Berlin?
Like many others, because of love! Not because of a person, but because the city of Berlin was, is and will be the great love of my life. That’s why I recently got a tattoo of the Berlin bear.
It looks really fresh!
Exactly, three weeks old. I just love the city! It’s a place where you can realize yourself and meet the people you want to spend your life with. That’s why the city is good to me. I was part of the lesbian circles in Nuremberg in the 1980s and came into contact with some of the key movers and shakers in the women’s movement. In turn, I came into contact with women who were interested in art and founded the first women artists’ archive. Through them I came into contact with female artists and projects from Berlin, for example the Pelze. So I was always in Berlin privately. I’ll never forget the first time we arrived in Berlin via Dreilinden, drove down Heerstraße early in the morning at sunrise and were able to see Berlin… I was blown away, the energy of the city went straight into me.
You are also connected to sex worker activist circles here. How did that come about?
I always had dominatrices and other sex workers in my circle of friends. The decisive factor for me to become active was the sex worker trade fair “World of Whorecraft” in 2019, where I worked for Deutsche Aidshilfe. I was blown away by the energy of the people there. I was deeply touched by the ability of sex workers to take away people’s shame about their own physicality. This kind of empowerment also exists in queer circles, but we can still learn a lot from sex workers in this respect.
And what did you do before managing the SMU?
I completed my training as a gas and water fitter in Nuremberg and then found a company in Berlin where I could work with women. Through my connections in the scene, I also found an apartment straight away, which allowed me to arrive in Berlin in the early 1990s. I already knew the Gay Museum, but it was too masculine for me at the time, it just wasn’t my space. It was a really long way to get here…
Take us with you on this journey, what happened?
I joined a women’s collective relatively quickly after my apprenticeship, which produced Germany’s first female master heating engineer, for example. I then received a request via the women’s art scene to repair a cistern for Charla Drops and Eva Hass at the UNART theater in Oranienstraße, privately. I was a huge fan of their plays at the time and of course I did it: stir my urn, camouflage in front of the dogs, the art whore in action… After I had been to UNART several times, Eva told me at some point that I had an incredible feel for light and whether I would like to do lighting technology… No sooner said than done! Shortly afterwards, I was doing an internship at the lighting company Blendwerk. In 1994, the opportunity arose to work as a lighting technician for CAFÉ FATAL in SO36. So I did the lighting for a queer standard dance event and became part of the queer SO family.
That must have meant a lot to you, right?
I was there until around 2001 and those years in the 90s were really the most formative time for me. I also notice that when I meet old colleagues, and not just at demonstrations: everyone is blown away by how great, intense and excessive that time was and how much we were able to help shape.
What made that time so formative?
The zeitgeist shortly after the wall came down was one of freedom, creativity and opportunities without repression. Many innovative, adventurous and risk-taking projects emerged at the time. There was a lot of drug use to survive the nightlife and the work afterwards. It was all highly political, and SO36 was no exception. At a time when the term ‘queer’ didn’t really exist in German-speaking countries, we organized the Queer Party and coined it. These were parties that definitely had a fun factor, but always conveyed a strong and provocative message. In 1994, for example, there was the queer party on the subject of AIDS, where stations were set up at the entrance where disguised employees painted Kaposi’s sarcoma on all visitors. At that time, there were still no HIV drugs, a lot of stigmatization and people were still dying… So we really wanted to put the theoretical appropriation of concepts into practice. For us, queer was a term that stood against any categorization: together, by everyone, for everyone.
What would you say is left of this queer spirit today?
What I find incredibly depressing is the division of the queer community as a result of the Israel-Palestine conflict. What Russia and Ukraine failed to achieve has now happened because of Israel and Palestine: people no longer listen to each other, common goals are no longer being implemented… But I see the developments from back then bearing fruit in a very positive way. Queerness and what we have in common is the focus for me and many others. People have become open to things that were not normatively part of society.
And this is where you want to stay in the future?
Believe me, I was sitting on my balcony the other day and thought: I’m so grateful! How privileged I am that I’m sitting in Kreuzberg, my lover is in bed and Berlin gives me the strength to get through all the crises… For the future, I secretly dream of a utopia in which I win the jackpot and use the money to set up a foundation that takes care of housing for queer pensioners. I see for myself how people from the entertainment industry fare in old age: many are dependent on basic income support and find themselves in poverty in old age. So for many, there is no adequate accommodation in old age. That’s why I want to set up such care facilities that also cater to the needs of queer people; everything from darkrooms to petting zoos would be included.
We’re keeping our fingers crossed that it works out! In the meantime, make yourself comfortable in the SMU.
Yes, I’ve already worked as a personnel manager in various places, but in the long run the physical work in lighting technology was too much for me. Before the Gay Museum, I worked at Deutsche Aidshilfe for nine years, but I think the SMU is my final stop. Here I have everything that is important to me: art and culture, political content and the queer community. When I read the job advertisement in the Siegessäule, I didn’t even think about whether I’d get it or not, I just thought: I’ll do the job (both laugh). And that’s how it turned out.
Has the SMU presented you with any challenges?
The induction! I’ve never had such a stressful induction phase as here. In my first few weeks, I went to the archive for the first time and immediately discovered photos of Hucky Fin Porzner. I knew Hucky personally and was saddened by her death in 2020. So I realized right at the beginning of my time at SMU that I was in the right place.
Your treasures also come from the archive here, don’t they?
Exactly, I found my little treasure in the archive. In a way, this closes another circle: they are flyers from the queer events at SO36 in the 1990s. I worked there, I attended them and learned to love them. We have the house party Hungry Hearts, a flyer disguised as a Stasi document from the queer party I told you about, the BIPoC series MAGIC3, which I worked at, one of the greatest women’s parties Jane Bond, and of course a flyer from Gayhane, which is still organized today.
What name would you give your darlings?
I have to think about that for a moment… “Flyersammlung SO36” is too boring for me, after all, that’s my wonderful queer 90s. Maybe really “The circle closes”. That’s a powerful experience that I get to have.
Can you also sum up your darlings in three words?
Past, Presence, Future! We’ve talked a lot about the past and the present, but I hope that our queer movement will continue in the future. That’s not a given, especially when I look at the current political climate. We have to take care of that, we have to fight for it.
(Interview: mino Künze)