Arne is not only active as a volunteer at the Schwules Museum, but has also been a member of the advisory board of the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung – a central institution for queer support work – for many years. In this interview, he talks about the value of foundations, the need to take a stand and why, in addition to visibility, financial independence is so crucial, especially now, in times of political tension and cultural cutbacks. A conversation about lived solidarity, strategic activism and the power of a well-connected community.

Hi Arne! Your last interview with the Schwules Museum was in 2020, when the Covid pandemic had just started. Back then, you were suffering a bit because everything was closed; you’re such a culture-person!

Yes, I’m really up for anything in that respect. Tomorrow my husband and I are having visitors, then we’re off to the Tipi am Kanzleramt. We’re going to see The Capital Dance Orchestra together! This is how we celebrate 45 years of friendship…

Say what? How old are you?

65!

So the upcoming visit and you, you ran into each other when you were 20 years old…

Exactly, we did our training together at the bank. I’ve spent my entire full-time professional life at the bank, working in HR since 1985.

That’s a direct answer! You’re still a volunteer at the Schwules Museum, but today I wanted to ask you about your work as a member of the advisory board of the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung! In your hms short bio, it says that you were responsible for “Diversity & Inclusion” as a personnel officer – what does that actually mean?

The idea is that diverse groups of people and employees achieve better results than people from just one spectrum. There are many reasons for this: in purely banking terms, holistic support requires a diverse team when you are looking for a solution for customers. In addition to a credit person, for example, you also need someone who is familiar with investments. However, my work in this area began when we wanted to help women in particular to get ahead. That was in the 90s! Back then, I was able to experience first-hand how communication and working methods changed when we got our first female team leader. As a gay man, I didn’t necessarily feel comfortable and accepted in the communication of the typical straight men – that suddenly changed when the first woman arrived. I found that very impressive, which is why I wanted to build on this experience. In 1999, together with a colleague from New York, where I had lived for two years, I co-founded a queer network – with the support of the head of HR. The more I got to grips with diversity, the clearer the categories beyond the gender binary became that needed to be considered.

Do you see a correlation between your involvement in this area and your own homosexuality?

Of course, I felt I was the first gay man everywhere to come out at the respective workplace. In that sense, I was directly affected! Due to the fact that I had come out, I was often seen as ‘something special’. And that changed drastically when there were five gay men in the department. Suddenly it was obvious: Aha, that’s five gay but different men! So I no longer had all the prejudices of the straight men projected onto me.

Could you tell me your top 3 measures for diversity and inclusion off the top of your head?

What I was just talking about would be one of them: representation! We have always aimed for 25% so that so-called ‘minorities’ can have a relevant influence on the organization. Then, at some point, we introduced target agreement processes through which so-called “soft factors”, such as gender or sexual orientation, could be included in the target agreement: What specifically are you doing as a manager to promote women? How can you create a welcoming culture for queer people? Recording such processes with figures makes the whole thing comprehensible!

What about the promotion of people of color?

The company I worked for had taken over an American bank. The Americans were really pioneers in this respect at the time, unlike today. They had to document so-called ‘Equal Employment Opportunities’ with the aim of counteracting structural racism. As difficult and incomplete as this program was, you had to admit that racism was an issue at all! You couldn’t say that for Germany, at least that’s my assessment.

I see, that actually brings us to the current political situation. You’ve certainly noticed how the Berlin Senate’s current budget cuts are affecting cultural institutions. At the same time, you yourself know how essential funding is – does this situation affect you?

Yes, of course, I have to be honest! I’ve also taken part in many demonstrations, although I never thought I’d have to take to the streets for this at my age. How we promote culture, or not, is a very important issue for a society. Especially for Berlin, as a federal state that has benefited greatly economically from cultural offerings since the so-called political change. A lot is being destroyed right now, including Berlin’s international reputation.

In your last interview, you talked about the novel “Cabaret” by Christopher Isherwood. In it, Isherwood describes the time in Germany shortly before the Nazis came to power. Would you go so far as to draw parallels with our current situation?

Sure, that’s what I’m afraid of. When I hear things like “You have to accommodate the AfD” or “We can’t just marginalize them now, they were elected after all”… There are definitely parallels to the conservatives of the 1920s who enabled the Nazis to rise to power. We’ve seen it all before! My parents ‘only’ experienced the Nazi era as children, I was just talking to them about it yesterday. They’ve seen enough of it to take a clear stance today and warn us: people be careful, don’t let history repeat itself!

How optimistic are you about the future?

I always say that I have a healthy dose of purposeful pessimism and enough optimism. I do believe that we can still achieve a great deal. I never thought that as a pensioner I would feel that I still have so much to do. But I can still do so much and that’s a good thing. There are still opportunities for action! As long as I have allies, I don’t fall into total pessimism.

Does this not affect your sense of security?

No, not at all. I was just thinking about this the other day when I was putting on my rainbow socks. A few years ago, it was a sign of pride and struggle, but now I sometimes have thoughts like “Which subway stations are you getting on and off at today?”… It doesn’t leave me cold! We can’t be carefree, as the attacks we’ve had here at the Schwules Museum and the personal death threats we’ve received from the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung show. At recent hms events, for example, we had an extra security concept at the entrances and exits…

Let’s go back to the foundation, what exactly do you do there?

During my time in New York, I had learned how close and supportive the gay and lesbian community can be with each other and had wished for such a connection in Berlin. In the end, I found this in the Homosexual Self-Help and the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung! So my aim is to prevent the queer community as a whole from being divided and to raise money for queer projects. Thank God Hannchen, Andreas Meyer-Hanno, saw it that way too. I was approached by Andreas at the time and recruited for the board. Although we were initially an all-gay board, it was clear that we didn’t just want to support gay projects. It was clear that there were power and resource imbalances within the community. That’s why we accepted and redistributed funds from more privileged people right from the start, for example to activist contexts. I have now been on the advisory board for six years, where I work with my colleagues to elect people to the board and develop guidelines for the direction in which hms should develop. We also keep an eye on what projects have been approved.

Very briefly, since you mentioned the e.V. Homosexuelle Selbsthilfe: do you also have the gossip about its dissolution? The association has not existed since last October…

Yes, there simply wasn’t enough new blood! Unfortunately, there weren’t enough people who wanted to be active on the board, and membership numbers were also falling. I think things like crowdfunding have become stronger and make it possible to donate money specifically for individual projects. The homosexual self-help model has probably simply been overtaken at this point. That may sound painful for many people who have supported the association for X decades, but the availability of sufficient alternatives is also a good thing.

Thank you for that, you said it well! The material you brought to our conversation is also about gay self-organization. Shall we talk about that?

Yes, I dug it up in the archive of the Schwules Museum. The funny thing is that our Hannchen (Andreas) told me at the time that he had studied in Braunschweig. And I also came out in Braunschweig! I didn’t know Andreas personally at the time, but I was familiar with the gay student group “Arbeitsgruppe Homosexualität Braunschweig”. When Andreas and I got to know each other years later and talked about our lives, the AHB was the connecting element: Hannchen had co-founded the group and thus enabled me to make my first contact with other gay men. I was grateful to him for initiating this. That made a lot of things easier for me!

I can see a lot of printed material!

Yes, the topics were wide-ranging. Here, for example, is a leaflet from the 1970s calling for education and compensation for the Nazi terror against homosexuals. As a university group, the AHB also dealt a lot with the scientific view of homosexuality, on the one hand to strengthen ‘the gay individual’, but also to educate society. Incidentally, I also met my boyfriend at the time at an AHB event. (both laugh)

What Meyer-Hanno hasn’t done for the community! It seems he has come a long way from the Braunschweig Homosexuality Working Group to the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung. How is the hms doing at the moment?

The foundation is doing well; I still remember how we worked towards the first million in the foundation’s capital, and we are now at a whole five million! We’ve also received donations and legacies from people we didn’t even know; then suddenly someone leaves us a little house in Kassel – that’s really great! I see this as a sign that the foundation is doing good work and is known for it.

Which projects do you particularly like to see financially supported?

I think it’s really important that hms also looks beyond Germany to see where queer people could be provided with resources. For example, thanks to an endowment, hms has set up the David Kato Fund, which supports queer people in so-called ‘persecutor states’ I also think the current Waltraud Schiffels Fund is important, as it raises awareness for the emancipation of trans* people. I was at the award ceremony last year and it was really emotional.

Can you think of anything that the SMU could learn from the hms?

I think we can always learn from each other, but I actually have to think about how we are becoming more diverse here at the museum and that we are also aiming to achieve this for the board and advisory board of the hms. The hms could learn more from the SMU! (laughs) There are so many exciting projects here; just thinking about the very first exhibition on inter* gives me goosebumps.

You are a charmer! Nevertheless, how do you rate the role of hms at the moment, when the Senate is cutting off funding for many queer projects?

Yes, I think it’s really important that there’s not just state aid. The hms is a private foundation. It is independent and wants to remain independent. In times when state funding is being cut everywhere, it’s important to have another pillar – knowing full well that the state coffers are bigger overall. But it is all the more important that a foundation like this is strengthened. That’s why I appeal to people who have something to bequeath and donate: please do the same! By leaving funds to us as a foundation, many specific queer projects can be implemented. You can also look this up on the website, where everything is listed transparently. It’s essential that these people in the community become aware of institutions like the Hannchen-Mehrzweck-Stiftung.

You’re right, you can also donate to the Schwules Museum! (both laugh) Will you still be with us for a while, Arne?

Of course, I’m not that old yet. I find the work here very exciting; especially with the increase in the international audience, the shifts in the café are particularly fun. Just recently, we had a family here who had fled from Ukraine and wanted to show their children queer culture – because they had never experienced it before. It sometimes happens that you’re half in each other’s arms, quite emotionally. I like being here, and I’ll be here for the time being!

Interview & photo: Yasmin Künze